2 Thes 1:9: The KJV correct, most modern versions wrong
Feb 4, 2024 3:11:12 GMT
Post by Colossians on Feb 4, 2024 3:11:12 GMT
This material is for the teaching of the Body of Christ, however the author reserves copyright over it.
Prerequisite reading
“Heaven and Hell”
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2 THES 1:9: THE KJV CORRECT, MOST MODERN VERSIONS WRONG
The issue
Here is the KJV, contrasted with the ESV (which is representative of most modern versions). We have included the preceding verse (8) and have underlined the section in focus.
KJV
[8] “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: [9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power;”
Modern version (represented by the ESV)
[8] “in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. [9] They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His might.”
Discourse analysis
The modern version presents a rather convoluted picture: we are told at v8 that Christ’s vengeance on those who obey not the gospel is intrinsically attached to His appearing in “flaming fire”, only to see such idea effectively swept aside in v9 in deference to an eternal destruction of unspecified mechanism, and/but which mechanism is subsequently implied (in hindsight) to consist of separation (“away”) from God’s presence, but then not necessarily so as such separation may simply be concurrent with said destruction rather than the cause of it. Goodness me!
The KJV, however, leads us to render the section in focus as that which in fact conveys the mechanism of (said) destruction: it is a destruction “[resulting] from God’s presence” and thus naturally in line with the stated mode of Christ’s appearing – “flaming fire”.
Moreover, we are also told that such destruction shall not only be “from the presence of God” but also “from the glory of His power”, the latter informing us that the former shall be that which confronts the unbeliever (and thus that which destroys him).
Linguistic analysis
The Greek text
The word and/or concept “away” that is present in the modern versions, is not present in the Greek text. Contrasting, the KJV presents what is written in the Greek and only what is written in the Greek.
Comparable passages
Our analysis of course hinges on the Greek word for the English “from” and which is responsible for the same English word in the below underlined text:
“But I determined this with myself, that I would not come again to you in heaviness. For if I make you sorry, who is he then that maketh me glad, but the same which is made sorry by me? And I wrote this same unto you, lest, when I came, I should have sorrow from them of whom I ought to rejoice” 2 Cor 2:1-3
: the apostle was not intimating that he would have sorrow by virtue of being away from certain believers, but a sorrow which would emanate from them when in their presence.
___
But there is (also) an exact replica (in both the Greek and corresponding English) of the phrase under discussion:
Peter speaking to the Jews at Solomon’s Porch:
“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord” Acts 3:19
: the refreshing (of regeneration) would not be by virtue of being away from the presence of the Lord, but (by virtue of) the (very) presence of the Lord (itself) – a refreshing resulting from the presence of the Lord.
Theology
We are told in Revelation concerning the eternal plight of the unregenerate:
“The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb” Rev 14:10.
And so we are told elsewhere that “our God is a consuming fire” (Heb 12:29).
Summary
It is clear that the passage under discussion informs us that the punishment of those who oppose God will consist of their being confronted for all eternity with His presence, not with their being away from Him.
Indeed non-believers today regularly declare they would rather be in a hell that was away from God than in His presence for eternity.
“It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.”
Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities.
Amen.
Prerequisite reading
“Heaven and Hell”
__________________________________________________________
2 THES 1:9: THE KJV CORRECT, MOST MODERN VERSIONS WRONG
The issue
Here is the KJV, contrasted with the ESV (which is representative of most modern versions). We have included the preceding verse (8) and have underlined the section in focus.
KJV
[8] “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: [9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power;”
Modern version (represented by the ESV)
[8] “in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. [9] They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His might.”
Discourse analysis
The modern version presents a rather convoluted picture: we are told at v8 that Christ’s vengeance on those who obey not the gospel is intrinsically attached to His appearing in “flaming fire”, only to see such idea effectively swept aside in v9 in deference to an eternal destruction of unspecified mechanism, and/but which mechanism is subsequently implied (in hindsight) to consist of separation (“away”) from God’s presence, but then not necessarily so as such separation may simply be concurrent with said destruction rather than the cause of it. Goodness me!
The KJV, however, leads us to render the section in focus as that which in fact conveys the mechanism of (said) destruction: it is a destruction “[resulting] from God’s presence” and thus naturally in line with the stated mode of Christ’s appearing – “flaming fire”.
Moreover, we are also told that such destruction shall not only be “from the presence of God” but also “from the glory of His power”, the latter informing us that the former shall be that which confronts the unbeliever (and thus that which destroys him).
Linguistic analysis
The Greek text
The word and/or concept “away” that is present in the modern versions, is not present in the Greek text. Contrasting, the KJV presents what is written in the Greek and only what is written in the Greek.
Comparable passages
Our analysis of course hinges on the Greek word for the English “from” and which is responsible for the same English word in the below underlined text:
“But I determined this with myself, that I would not come again to you in heaviness. For if I make you sorry, who is he then that maketh me glad, but the same which is made sorry by me? And I wrote this same unto you, lest, when I came, I should have sorrow from them of whom I ought to rejoice” 2 Cor 2:1-3
: the apostle was not intimating that he would have sorrow by virtue of being away from certain believers, but a sorrow which would emanate from them when in their presence.
___
But there is (also) an exact replica (in both the Greek and corresponding English) of the phrase under discussion:
Peter speaking to the Jews at Solomon’s Porch:
“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord” Acts 3:19
: the refreshing (of regeneration) would not be by virtue of being away from the presence of the Lord, but (by virtue of) the (very) presence of the Lord (itself) – a refreshing resulting from the presence of the Lord.
Theology
We are told in Revelation concerning the eternal plight of the unregenerate:
“The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb” Rev 14:10.
And so we are told elsewhere that “our God is a consuming fire” (Heb 12:29).
Summary
It is clear that the passage under discussion informs us that the punishment of those who oppose God will consist of their being confronted for all eternity with His presence, not with their being away from Him.
Indeed non-believers today regularly declare they would rather be in a hell that was away from God than in His presence for eternity.
“It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.”
Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities.
Amen.